No Dark Matter = Proof of Dark Matter?

  • Published on Apr 24, 2019
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    We’ve been failing to detect dark matter for decades. Finally, the latest failure to detect dark matter may have actually proved its existence. One of these is true: either most of the matter in the universe is invisible and formed of something not explained by modern particle physics OR our understanding of gravity is completely broken. The debate over which is true has raged for decades, but may finally have been resolved in an unlikely way: the proof that dark matter exists, and really is an exotic, unknown substance, may have come from the discovery of two galaxies that appear to have no dark matter at all. Today on Space Time Journal Club we’ll look at the papers that reveal this discovery:
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    The effect of dark matter was first noticed in 1933, when the legendary Swiss astrophysicist Fritz Zwicky noticed that the galaxies in the Coma cluster were moving too quickly to remain gravitationally bound within that cluster. He guessed the presence of “dunkle m aterie” - a dark matter invisible to his telescope but whose gravitational effect held the cluster together. As with many of Zwicky’s predictions - like the existence of neutron stars and gravitational lensing - this wasn’t taken seriously until decades later. The hunt for dark matter began in earnest after the early 70s when Vera Ruben, discovered that the rotation rates of spiral galaxies were too fast given the mass of their visible stars alone. They should throw themselves to pieces spinning that quickly - that is, unless, a gravitational force of unseen origin was holding them together.

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Comments • 2 814

  • Tim L
    Tim L 7 days ago

    Could it be that dark energy = momentum of hydrogen in galactic filaments, and dark matter the mass of the galactic filaments?

  • Zes
    Zes 7 days ago


  • Gautam Gaikwad
    Gautam Gaikwad 8 days ago +1

    no dark matter=proof of math is eternal

  • Esso Blue
    Esso Blue 8 days ago

    Like a counterbalance. Gravity may be the big part of the universe and solids just condense it. The same may apply to light. light could be its own entity of which the dna of solids take in and condense it. The sun got it from somewhere. And things solids to be over vast areas it could be that dark matter and energy is the thing that parts of are condensed. It's only the genetics that take part of it that become galaxies and planets and gases.. The thing is that things could be faster than light. Besides things, solids moving through space things could be moving through solids at such speeds makes the solids look slow. Solid matter of which the universe is the embryo its in. Like an alternative to a big bang where you have the entity of dark matter and energy which is the universe with certain genetic elements that create within the embryo of the universe. There maybe certain types of filaments and pathways beyond

  • Bob Henderson
    Bob Henderson 15 days ago

    I have been trying to find someone to answer this question for a while. Here goes;As I understand it time moves faster the further out of a gravity well
    as it is measured in relation to at the bottom of the gravity well. Or
    to put it in a slightly different context as an object moves out of the
    gravity well the flatter space-time becomes. If this is correct then
    would an object as observed from the bottom of a gravity well appear to
    accelerate the further away and the flatter space-time became?

  • R2COM
    R2COM 18 days ago +1

    No ether = ether exists?

  • Mo_cardio
    Mo_cardio 24 days ago +1

    So... the absence of something absent... proofs it’s not absent. Dope.

  • David Jordan
    David Jordan 24 days ago

    Dark matter exist only as fill in the blanks variables in equations … it can never be proved to exist in practical terms.
    If you spent your entire life seeking a thing, but never find it …
    Has your life been wasted ???

  • Nudedragon
    Nudedragon 25 days ago +1

    Dark matter is so exciting... How can such a prolific material be so mysterious... I hope answers are found in my lifetime

  • MG1
    MG1 27 days ago

    PBS Space Time, you are repeating the garbage ignorant scientist dish out. There is no Dark matter. Stupid scientist Ignorant of Galaxy evolution conjured up Dark matter to hide their ignorant. With the European Gaia 2nd Data release they no longer have any excuse accept total stupidity to continue believing in Dark matter. Since my challenge to your top scientist to prove them wrong and If I fail I will give them $10,000. The you tube dose not recommend any universities video for me. I need to search the internet to find new article. When I do most of them have no contact information. I have contacted most top universities and scientist. They are not interested in correct version. They are shit scared of public response as well as what all the useless scientist will do instead of chasing their tail like the rat on wheel and get no where. Full information in my 1975 Bremen summerhouse notes or by official request only. Ferydoon Shirazi. MG1

  • Cameron Webb
    Cameron Webb 27 days ago

    Dark Energy being understood as an Exotic Invisible Material just sounds like Emperors New Clothes to me.
    It feels more plausible that someones Maths is wrong because Maths is the Exotic Language of pure Abstraction. Maths is just a useful Myth.

  • dpsamu2000
    dpsamu2000 29 days ago

    What if a large star, or the dense core of a galaxy collided with another. In the collision large concentrations of matter were thrown out in a low velocity gravitationaly coherent glob. This glob would have been so dense that most of it formed stars. In my theory most so called dark matter are merely objects too small to have enough fusion to be seen at interstellar, and intergalactic distance. In the case of the described galaxy there are not as many sub stellar objects as other galaxies. I suspect the effect of the scale of the distance between stars is inappropriately interpreted. Most people, including astrophysicists, seldom mention the scale except in the abstract. In the scale of the atom the scale of nucleus to electron is often compared to a grain of sand to a football stadium. That's seen as an enormous difference in scale. But the difference in scale of the stars is if the sun was the size of a grain of sand the nearest star would be on the edge of a volume of "empty" space of 8000 cubic miles. That's a lot of "empty" space. The so called "dark matter" can be represented as just 4 more grains of sand worth of matter. in that 8000 cubic mile volume. That 4 grains has enough space so that even though it has to be sub stellar masses it can be masses 10 times the mass of Jupiter, and have 100 times the number of them as the representation of the mass as stars, that is to say 400 masses of 10 times the mass of Jupiter, and still be impossible to detect them. They would be in the above scale grains of dust 1/100th the size of a grain of sand, and at best over a mile away. illuminated by the grain of sand that is our sun shining at about 5000 degrees. They are not dust. That much dust would block light from distant stars. They are not gas. That much gas would be detectable from its thermal radiation. And obviously, of course, they are not stars. we would see them. They would be weakly interacting enough for them all to settle into the galactic disk. My studies on the subject prove that there is no "dark matter" "halo, or any halo at all. halos we see around galaxies are illusions same as on Earth. One might argue that if halo are caused by the same thing as on earth they would be thicker the farther away a galaxy is. That would be true if the haloing substance, like a fog, was uniformly distributed between the galaxies. it isn't. That argument fails to consider that matter is distributed in a complex web with vast spaces between. The haloing fog is also distributed in the web. so there is no direct relation of distance to halo thickness. We look across the vast spaces into the foggy strings of the web in which galaxies are embedded. If there was a string of web directly aligned away from us so we looked down the foggy string there would be a relation of distance to halo. In a few rare cases we do see exactly that. back to dark matter. The rotation curve is best described by a set of gravitation cases under plain old Newtonian gravity with no dark matter. The first case is of a uniform spherical mass. The rotation curve of that is a steep upward slope from center to edge. The second case is of the mass flattened somewhat. like a sphere that has the top and bottom cut off at geographic lines that on Earth are represented by the tropics. Like a thick hockey puck. Then the curve doesn't slope as steeply up. The third case is represented by a continuum of thinner and thinner disks. As the disk thins the slope gets less steep eventually flattening altogether. In a 4th case where there is a combination of sphere and disk like a galaxy with a bulge we get a steep slope up to the edge of the bulge then a flat slope in the disk to the edge of the disk. That's the case for a disk of substantial mass. For a 6th case where the central mass is much less that the disk we see the Keplerian curve like our solar system. All these are described perfectly by simple Netonian gravity with no invocation of "dark matter". The only thing about dark matter is that we don't see it. I would argue that it isn't unusual non baryonic matter. We don't see it merely because there isn't much of it, it is sub stellar, not dust, not gas, and it has a lot of dark space to hide in.

  • Madcircle
    Madcircle Month ago +1

    It's the door to the Underverse

  • Seán O'Nilbud
    Seán O'Nilbud Month ago

    You need to wash in cooler water.

  • Scorch428
    Scorch428 Month ago +1

    Could Dark Matter be an illusion created by the electromagnetic forces of regular matter?

    • Scorch428
      Scorch428 Month ago

      Does any celestial object act as a magnet?

  • Music and Random Shit Jeff

    Can't it not be sone fotm of electro magnetism and not (dark matter)

  • Andrzej
    Andrzej Month ago

    Thanks Rick, this video was again eye opening. I did not found any other videos that would talk about connection of special relativity and electromagnetism. This stuff is not simple in any way :)

  • Kargadan
    Kargadan Month ago

    Very interesting, so we used gravitational lensing to see that some gas/mass is not where its supposed to be to deny modified gravity, but did they apply modified gravity to that gravitational lensing?

  • Michael Elbert
    Michael Elbert Month ago

    Speaking of a Nintendo did anyone else figure out how to get extra lives after the money by bouncing a koopa troopa off of a stairs over and over. And if you do it too many times you died that was your last life you do it too many times also it started making weird symbols and you had no idea how many lives u have 😂

  • Michael Elbert
    Michael Elbert Month ago

    If you can manage to squeeze in another select and start I think ya get double. I forget.

  • Michael Elbert
    Michael Elbert Month ago

    I think Cody face was talking about DIA universal information that's in our brain and our body.

  • Shenkosky
    Shenkosky Month ago

    The way you depicted how they lost the dark matter is the same way they said the dark matter survived the collision of dust and gas when two galaxies passed through each other. The truth is always the easiest answer we have some un-known variable that we call dark matter because nothing adds up so if it’s all made of light an all matter at its most basic parts is also all light then we have no way to conclude any observations by way of light. We simply know that quantum mathematics breaks down the laws of gravity on a very tiny scale as it also does in such a large scale we don’t know how this happens but one day we may find the answers in quantum computers

  • Reginald Carey
    Reginald Carey Month ago

    Shouldn’t our observation of distant galaxies include information about the density at the temporal distance of the galaxy? Everything is more dense (smaller space time). We may be incorrectly assuming a standard density of matter.

  • Isla Casey
    Isla Casey Month ago

    When you realize that dark matter is really just vashta nerada

  • Largefarva 1313
    Largefarva 1313 Month ago +1

    Sorry but this continued support of a failed theory is the end of this channel for me

  • Hombre Pobre
    Hombre Pobre Month ago

    tell those scientist to come and ask me what comes first before dark matter, i have found new things to consider in the mystery of the beginning of the universe, if where does this dark matter come from..... when the big bang theory became the issue here comes the dark matter, and now that scientist are solving the mystery of the dark matter, i'm now trying my best to finish the documentation of my study about what did comes first before the dark matter,, it never stops because every scientist wants to became celebrity. that's what previous scientist did.,,,, actually i already figured out if what is that so called dark matter, but i don't want to talk to let them exercise their knowledge,, i'll give you a clue, do you know why they called it dark matter? if they called it white matter, people will bother science asking how does it looks like, but to avoid intrigue, you must say dark, if somebody ask how does it look like, you just say the telescope can't project because it's dark......that's science. a bright kind of,,,,,

  • BigNewGames
    BigNewGames 2 months ago

    Dark matter does not exist. It is merely a mistake that occurs in Einstein's field equation because he neglected to address the action causing gravity. If he had included that variable then he would have predicted the increasing velocity of stars with time. He would have predicted the increasing volume of space, which would have led to a prediction of accelerated expansion of space that only becomes apparent when viewing galaxies far far away. There is no such thing as dark matter or dark energy. The observations make it obvious that there is a mistake in Einstein's field equation. Otherwise, it would be able to explain the movement of all mass in the universe instead of just 5%.

  • ryszard bochenek
    ryszard bochenek 2 months ago

    What if that dark matter is a side effect of some unknown decomposition processes and its value increases and will increase possible ??

  • Sean Butterfield
    Sean Butterfield 2 months ago

    How do we know dark matter doesn't experience the strong or weak nuclear forces? I recognize that it would clump up like regular matter and interact with light if it experienced electromagnetism, so we can conclude it doesn't because we don't witness those phenomena, but what would we expect to see if dark matter particles did experience the strong and/or weak nuclear forces?

  • Rob Ode
    Rob Ode 2 months ago +2

    Galaxies that don't have it just means we are so off it's stupid,to pretend like lack of an imaginary thing proves an imaginary thing is idiocy and dogma. This is reaching a borderline religious cult status at this point. It cannot exist, it's just total bullcrap man. Your kidding yourself

  • altaccout
    altaccout 2 months ago

    I'm wondering what would happen if dark matter can be manipulated. If you would bring enough of it together can it form a black hole? Would it be able to cause a gas giant to fission? How would it interact if thrown into a black hole in great numbers?

  • BruderShaft1
    BruderShaft1 2 months ago

    Damn even the comments on these channels are super-smart.

  • Elliot Grey
    Elliot Grey 2 months ago

    The fact that Sir Roger Penrose has fan-art is just heartwarming

  • Luigi Cantoviani
    Luigi Cantoviani 2 months ago +1

    Spanish astronomers found issues with Yale's ptofessor's calculations. Result: the galaxies actually exhibit dark matter condistent with other galaxy counts.

  • Vermilicious
    Vermilicious 2 months ago

    It's all a dream. Time to wake up.

  • ThexBorg
    ThexBorg 3 months ago

    I think that the non-existent Dark Matter search is being over analysed... making excuses for it to exist when there are other more prevalent particles in the universe that are out there..
    Asking the wrong questions of the universe.

  • ThexBorg
    ThexBorg 3 months ago

    Dark matter can be as simple as interstellar dust and rogue planets in interstellar space..

  • Izaya Kross
    Izaya Kross 3 months ago

    I was just thinking about this...
    I keep reading Farnes paper on dark matter and negative mass. It’s very attractive.
    A couple of thoughts, the Fermi paradox, wouldn’t this be a possible answer, that a sufficiently advanced civilization would be able to gather up the dark matter of their home galaxy to use for light speed travel. It would be interesting if we find the neighboring galaxies with a deficit of dark matter.
    Negative matter has the opposite acceleration, wouldn’t this mean that it causes negative entropy. Disorder to order

  • life42theuniverse
    life42theuniverse 3 months ago

    My question is what is the moment of inertia of the galaxies? How much energy of rotation is locked up in orbits/rotation of dust, asteroids,planets,stars, quasars, black holes, etc. Is all this energy/mass accounted for when measuring the masses of the galaxy by current methods?

  • EP114587
    EP114587 3 months ago

    Great Scott! This channel is awesome!

  • Dimitri Swords
    Dimitri Swords 3 months ago +1

    Would a solar system that was ejected from a galaxy continue to support life?

  • MultiPunci
    MultiPunci 3 months ago

    Why is his contrast so low here?

  • Zo Fryer
    Zo Fryer 3 months ago

    Dark Matter is literally a placeholder name for matter we know is there that we can't see. The proof it exists is gravitational lensing. Every moron that has tried to claim dark matter doesn't exist, has to ignore gravitational lensing exists at all to make their fake argument.

  • WPIManiacMagic
    WPIManiacMagic 3 months ago

    I really hope someone reads this and puts me in my place ... but my idea ... ok so everything is made of strings ... and like an orchestra the different vibrations produce different results ... if you are blind you can hear these amazing vibrations and all of their differences. When the orchestra stops ... you can no longer 'see' (hear) it. The strings are still there taking up space etc ... so what if dark matter are dead/dormant strings ... they would still have all of that mass and explain why we cant see dark matter.

    OGIE NG GOMEZ 3 months ago

    This is the most mind blowing shit I've heard in the past couple of years.

  • joe blogs
    joe blogs 3 months ago

    but is dark energy just the universe shrinking the entropy to dark matter?

  • Sails
    Sails 3 months ago

    Or... red shift measurements for determining galaxies movement is wrong. Like how galaxies are moving away at the speed of light. Which according to math can not happen. So the bandaid of universe expansion was used to hold a obviously broken theory together.

  • John C Gibson
    John C Gibson 3 months ago

    Particle standard model is a joke. Can't even account for 90 percent of stuff . No high schools teach it. All high schools teach relativity.

  • Nick MaGrick
    Nick MaGrick 3 months ago

    your a physics nerd Harry!

  • WfB.Subtraktor
    WfB.Subtraktor 3 months ago

    just saying, but an unseen source of mass and galaxies makes black holes come to mind. Since standard physics dont really apply to black holes then maybe dark matter is related to them.

  • Upgrade
    Upgrade 3 months ago

    dark matter is obviously compression of time

  • Computerhead
    Computerhead 3 months ago

    What if dark matter was just energy disguised as matter?

  • Roland McIntosh
    Roland McIntosh 3 months ago +1

    So what do the areas without dark matter have in common? Are they all high entropy? Could dark matter be a consequence of lower entropy volumes affecting spacetime's shape, such that more ordered systems have a gravitational "vapor pressure" on their space?

  • Commish/Flock Baltimore productions

    I need you guys to know that you do a fantastic job and i have not only learned more about astro physics and quantum theory than i ever thought possible, i have a LOVE and appreciation...and fear (you guys are good at that, it's fun) of our universe and possible multiverse.
    thank you for what you do, please keep doing it! would totally support you on a paid program and/or television!

  • 7shinta7
    7shinta7 3 months ago

    Dear sir,
    you surely have a lot of outstanding skills...
    ...but pronouncing German isn't among them. ;)
    Just kidding, I love this show. Please keep up the great work. ^^

  • dan kurth
    dan kurth 3 months ago +1

    „Dark Matter“ is a theoretical concept introduced to ‚heal‘ a severe shortcoming of gravitational theory. It has the ‚practical advantage‘ not to be detectable/observable, but it became ontified just because ... it’s so practical to hide the shortcomings of gravitational theory in astrophysics and cosmology.

  • Kuhl Harris
    Kuhl Harris 3 months ago

    Electro-magnetism. Gravity is only a small PART of an electro-magnetic universe. Dark matter is an excuse for providing financial backing and salaries of scientists for decades to come. (See CERN). Now, only a few years since it was created, there in now a new call for an even bigger multi-billion $$$ hadron collider.
    Dark matter is a great example of how the world’s leading “scientists” came to a conclusion, demanded peer agreement, and have been trying to prove it ever since. And, using their hold over the entire scientific community to choke slam anyone who offers a conflicting opinion, they control the narrative. (Much like their global warming comrades).

  • Giorgi Sukhitashvili
    Giorgi Sukhitashvili 3 months ago +1

    like how so called "scientists" throw the word "proof" around these days..

  • jojolafrite90
    jojolafrite90 3 months ago

    Maybe they'll finally stop wasting money to search for "WIMPS" that had an incredibly small chance to be what would explain all that is observed, particularly this discrepancies about gravity and the mass of something (it never even had to be what we think of as matter) that would exist in addition to classic matter and it had infinitesimal chances to be true from the start. Pure assumptions, and still a big part of the community though that it had to be it, less and less over time, I guess. But since the invention of the WIMP, I had the intuition that it had to be something else.

  • kevin Leonard
    kevin Leonard 3 months ago +1

    Has anyone talked about gravitational resonance. All of the smaller stuff in with the big stuff like stars and galaxies amplify the gravitational effect. 🤔