When Veritasium gets it Wrong! - Trial by EXPERIMENT!

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  • Опубликовано: 21 окт 2014
  • Veritasiums explanation for the deflection of water bugged me.
    A week or so of experimenting later, I had a simple, reproducible experiment that demonstrated that their explanation was wrong.
    The concept is simple. According to Veritasium, positive ions come out in the water, while negative ones are withheld. This means that in an electrically isolated system, the first water out should be positive, while the reservoir at the top becomes increasingly negatively charged. However ultimately that water must come out too, and when it does, it should be strongly repelled by the charged object. In reality, that doesnt happen, indeed if anything its more strongly attracted, although this is probably due to the last water out moving more slowly. Either way its a pretty clear experiment for showing that the ions do not move back up into the tap as Veritasium suggests.
    Stunningly there is actually some quite recent stuff on this in the literature (last 10 yrs or so), although Im not so sure I believe any of it.
    Y'see showing something to be wrong is usually just the first stage in science.... you then gotta show you know whats going on by proposing a model that works.
    In the week or two of experimenting I did, I got enough clear results to show everything is wrong! I have no coherent explanation that merely explains the obtained results, let alone one that can be used to predict unknowns.
    FYI, the cones at the end are called Taylor cones and are the core of electrospray which got someone a Nobel Prize in chemistry!
    Kinda makes it even more weird that its so hard to come up with a fully coherent explanation of why a stream of water is deflected by a charged object.
    -Simple things don't always have simple explanations!
    Kelvin dropper has to be seen to be believed!
    ruclip.com/video/sArNxGnYhNU/видео.html
    Veritasiums video
    ruclip.com/video/jIMihpDmBpY/видео.html
    This video was support though Patreon.
    www.patreon.com/Thunderf00t
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Комментарии • 1 662

  • Klint Karas
    Klint Karas 11 дней назад

    Ok so this is exactly why so many of these younger "skeptics" worry me. "I have a theory and my test. Proves what I think" but then they don't try to disprove their own theory... and so while it makes sense and they feel they proved it. They are wrong but feel like they are 100% right and lash out at anyone who tries to refute them. I feel like were gonna have a dark period where a bunch of "discoveries" are made then 5-10 years later they are all disproved. This is why I question many theories ... And it can absolutely be a lack of understanding on my part but how many theories could be based of off one simple misreading or a misunderstanding due to a lack of our understanding of how something actually works. I mean look at how confident veritasium Is?

  • julio quinones
    julio quinones 13 дней назад

    Could the glass be holding the negative charge? it looks like the water is even more attracted towards the end.

  • Terry Peake
    Terry Peake 14 дней назад

    Thunderfoot used water. The other guy used wadder. Not the same chemical. Would the velocity during the stream, Vs reduction of velocity at the end of the stream, increase the attraction due to reduced velocity.

  • Nick G
    Nick G 14 дней назад

    Veritasium's explanation isn't wrong... but the OH- and H+ ions (and stray ions) are Sooooooo negligible it doesn't make a difference. Just look up the water auto-ionization constant. The constant tells you on average how many OH- and H+ ions are in tap water.

  • MAK kandeel
    MAK kandeel 26 дней назад

    is it possible to stop iron or magnet in the air by another magnet not to fall down or pool up to it ?

  • Don Wald
    Don Wald 27 дней назад

    Facts are sexist!

  • corthew
    corthew 27 дней назад

    Now do this with a flexible plastic or rubber tube, and after the water is done, move the balloon toward the end of the tube to see if it deflects away or toward. I'm not sure how you can be sure the apparatus itself did not take on the negative ions otherwise.

  • Tdog Texan
    Tdog Texan 28 дней назад

    I think a great way you should try to test this is by using deionized water

  • Derek Jay
    Derek Jay Месяц назад

    After this video: listing himself as fake news in 3, 2,...

  • Scharlach927
    Scharlach927 Месяц назад

    *There is an even more decisive way to test it.* If what he said was true, you could simply do a pH test on your (it obviously has to be) destilled water after it has curved around the charged object because the only positive ions that would be in the water now should be hydrogen ions, so basically protons or oxonium ions which they react to in water.
    H2O + H2O ー> OH- + H+ + H2O
    H2O + H+ ー> H3O+ => pKz(H3O+) = 0 => acidic
    So going by his theory, the water must now be acidic which cannot be the case because that would make chemical industry much easier if we could just analyze water into by letting it pass by a charge.

  • Finn Jensen
    Finn Jensen 2 месяца назад

    of course you isolated the water

  • Blackops Catspy
    Blackops Catspy 2 месяца назад

    Manic depressive dihydrogen oxide?

  • Dirty Dan
    Dirty Dan 2 месяца назад

    YOUR EXPLANATION IS WRONG. THE REASON THE WATER ATTRACTS TO THE CUP AND BALLOON IS BECAUSE THE WATER HAS LEAD IONS IN IT WHICH THE GOVERNMENT PUT INTO OUR WATER SUPPLY TO MAKE EVERYONE STUPID FROM LEAD POISONING SO THE PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO WILLINGLY INCREASE TAX DOLLARS AND BECOME SLAVES TO THE POLITICAL WAR PIGS.

  • Noneofyour Business
    Noneofyour Business 2 месяца назад

    I would have just used deionized H2O and see if that gets reflected as well...

  • Kyle Brown
    Kyle Brown 2 месяца назад

    If the water stream curves doesn't that mean one side is moving slower than the other? So could the charges object be slowing down the water closer to it? Though that wouldn't explain the repelling which you showed happening. Surely someone's done some proper research on this?

  • Leo V.
    Leo V. 2 месяца назад

    What’s the big deal with disproving the polar molecule explanation? Isn’t that basically how electric forces appear in any uncharged material?

  • Anq Guiter
    Anq Guiter 2 месяца назад

    Thunderfoot...u can use pure water...just lab grade H2O...if it also deflects...then its due to polarization...if nothing happen...the ions have to do smthing with it

  • martandrMC
    martandrMC 3 месяца назад

    What about distilled water then?

  • cunning wolf
    cunning wolf 3 месяца назад

    Isn't oxygen magnetic?

  • Kaaz
    Kaaz 3 месяца назад

    Fucking magnets, how do they work?

  • rota m8
    rota m8 3 месяца назад

    the best thing about science is that any claim can be tested

  • cain tuphast
    cain tuphast 4 месяца назад

    Why can't it be air, some kind of vortex formed between the water and object

  • Mam Amheus
    Mam Amheus 4 месяца назад

    Fascinating! I wish my chemistry and physics lessons at school had been this interesting. I'm glad to see that both you and Veritasium are willing to say 'hey, things aren't as we were told all the time' and spend time trying to figure it out. Even better that the answer is "X, but we need more work". The wonderful coda of science!

  • The Eh Team
    The Eh Team 5 месяцев назад

    This looks like the Hall Effect. You have a current (actual electron current) flowing through a voltage difference (electric field). Your flow has an electric force forcing it towards the negatively charged cup.

  • TheSteelshooter
    TheSteelshooter 5 месяцев назад

    Hit both water streams with a strobe light. I would guess the glass tube is a connected stream, but the faucet is separate droplets.

  • BurnItWithFire
    BurnItWithFire 6 месяцев назад

    A bit late. But how about using purified(deionized) water to test if the results are different?

  • Pit Gutzmann
    Pit Gutzmann 7 месяцев назад

    +Thunderf00t If Veritasium's explanation was right, you should be able to measure a positive charge in the water that has dropped down. Catch it before it hits metal and measure it's charge!

  • JamesFrancesco
    JamesFrancesco 7 месяцев назад

    wow, you commented on a video without mentioning feminism. good for you, psycho

  • Niall Tracey
    Niall Tracey 7 месяцев назад

    There's a slight gap in the methodology here:
    When you move the charged membrane (balloon/cup) near to the droplets, you have already held it to the stream, which would give the opportunity for the water to gather charge as per Derek Muller, if that was possible.
    So now we've got an uncontrolled variable -- is the deflection of the droplets due to the pre-charging of the water, or is it simply the default behaviour of droplets in the presence of a weak negative static field?
    My initial hypothesis would be the latter, as the continued deflection of the stream does indeed appear to disprove Muller's theory.
    But we'd need to see the effect of the charged balloon on individual droplets that had never been subject to a static field beforehand.

  • surgeyX
    surgeyX 7 месяцев назад

    So whatever happened with this? Did Veritasium ever respond?

    • nineball039
      nineball039 6 месяцев назад

      Yes he did. Sort the comments by Top Comments. Derek's reply is the top comment.

  • Tony Flounders
    Tony Flounders 8 месяцев назад

    Hi Thunderfoot.
    You might want to look up a thing called exclusion zone (EZ) water. I saw this on a TED talk and it indicates that water at its surface rearranges its self into sheets of H3O2 which are slightly electrically charged.
    Hope this helps.

  • IndustrialDonut
    IndustrialDonut 8 месяцев назад

    Can we try this with distilled deionized water?

  • Aco
    Aco 8 месяцев назад

    The way that drop oscillates speaks volumes about your point - there's definitely something going on that the other models haven't directly recognized. Could it be possible to measure the charge of the water without affecting the system too greatly?

  • Zac packman
    Zac packman 8 месяцев назад

    whilst veritasum may not get the science fully right they do simplfy alot of stuff for us normal ppls in a intresting and informative way. its not like you havent made mistakes b4 eather :) good work as allwase mate

  • Marconius
    Marconius 8 месяцев назад

    The one thing I definitely want to see is how this behaves with distilled water, that has no ions in it.

    • nineball039
      nineball039 6 месяцев назад

      Water is self ionizing. See wikipedia entry "Self-ionization of water". Pure water is neutral which with the number of free hydrogen ions giving us the neutral pH of 7.

  • Connor Watson
    Connor Watson 9 месяцев назад

    Have you tried it with DI water? If it has the same effect then it might be the case that the ions aren't what's causing the bend

    • nineball039
      nineball039 6 месяцев назад

      The whole point of Veritasium's video is to explain why *tap water* is attracted to a charged object.

    • Connor Watson
      Connor Watson 9 месяцев назад

      Also try a non polar liquid

  • Mortos DerSoulStealer
    Mortos DerSoulStealer 9 месяцев назад

    I don't care about the science of it, I'm just glad I can now convince my children I'm a Jedi.

  • Lankey Bastard
    Lankey Bastard 9 месяцев назад

    I see through your evil plan. By making us all have to pee with your dripping water machine you plan to drive up the cost of water.
    You evil bastard.

  • Joshua Lansell-Kenny
    Joshua Lansell-Kenny 9 месяцев назад

    My mate felt a strong attraction to Thunderf00t charges are definitely involved lol

  • Andre Artus
    Andre Artus 10 месяцев назад

    Has this been run using deionized or distilled water? It would be interesting to have two streams, one normal tap water ion concentrations and another deionized, running at the same flow rate and then comparing the deflection both upstream and downstream. High speed could prove illuminating. Of course for completeness the same should be done with a discharged balloon.

  • Arokace
    Arokace 10 месяцев назад

    I'm not a scientist so I could easily be wrong but could the ions be going to the metal with the sinks tap in Veritasium's video? Either way...why do this to him... There's so many other people who deserve your negative(well technically positive) feedback. Or were you just kind of at the bottom of the bin when you decided this? And ultimately, I think you said something about why scientist didn't say something at the time of his video, well that would probably be because of the majority(if not close to all) of his viewers are probably people who wouldn't know for sure if he is right or wrong.

  • Liber Philosophus
    Liber Philosophus 10 месяцев назад

    I think your model works better. Anions in an aqueous solution will typically be one of the lesser solutes, considering water itself and other cations mixed in. However, "charged" particle interactions are one of the weakest links in the molecular world. It would likewise then be unsurprising to see the interaction become nill at higher velocities. I think the repulsion at the end is explained by Newton's third law.

  • what else is on
    what else is on 11 месяцев назад

    That's not the only video in which Derek attempts to replace others' misconceptions with his own. That's why I got sick of watching his stuff. I'm just discovering your channel though and I can't fault your accuracy or logic at all so far. You can have my cancelled Veritasium subscription.

  • Silver Night
    Silver Night 11 месяцев назад

    Didn't he say that "some" of the water would go back up into the original container. Couldn't some of the water fly off the other way?

  • Phteve
    Phteve 11 месяцев назад

    He's on Bill Nye's show.
    Bill Nye's show is on Netflix.
    Netflix has 7 letter.
    _______ ---> N-O-T-R-E-A-L is also seven letters.
    Therefore, not a real scientist.
    TRUMP 2020

  • The Kaveman
    The Kaveman 11 месяцев назад

    More to be done on this

  • U.N. Owen
    U.N. Owen 11 месяцев назад +1

    +Thunderf00t: Again, I don't know WHO these people are, but, I'm pretty certain Veratasium, is pronounced 'VER+uh+TAY+ZEE+um, NOT 'VER+uh+TAYT+EE++um' (where are you getting that 2nd 't' from? There IS NONE)

  • Erlend Ellingsen
    Erlend Ellingsen 11 месяцев назад +1

    Uhm... Veritasium is actually correct. Do this with larger objects over larger amount of time, and touch the pipe... you will get a small electric shock. Obviously this does not happen if you have an plastic pipe.

    When I've been doing sports, I somehow often gets electrically charged (like the cup). When i first enter the shower its all fine and i can touch the metal piping, but after a min or so i get small but unpleasant electrical shock when I touch the piping.

  • Joost Ringoot
    Joost Ringoot 11 месяцев назад

    An explanation that is in my opinion consistent with both your experiments and the experiments of veritassium, is this:
    Water is an equilibrium of ions.
    The negative object attracts the positive ions and repulses the negative ions. Some negative ions escape via the drops at the bottom and some dispose their charge at the conductive metal tap of veritassiums experiment, some just stay at the tap.
    The result is a slightly positively charged waterbeam that is sufficiently charged to pull the water towards the negatively charged object.

  • pedzsan
    pedzsan 11 месяцев назад

    I like you method of presenting your experiments with a healthy dose of self doubt.

  • Artem Zhuravski
    Artem Zhuravski Год назад

    Well he is kinda wrong not totaly

  • Ben Snash
    Ben Snash Год назад

    Perhaps when veritasium said that the polar nature of water would only cause it to flip and not move because there would be equal attraction and repulsion is wrong, perhaps since the molecule's positive side is turned towards the cup it means as its close to the cup than the negative side the attraction force would be marginally greater than the repulsion force. Intuition tells me that it wouldn't produce enough of a difference to cause that much change in the flow but it's a thought

  • Crooks and Crafts
    Crooks and Crafts Год назад

    +Thunderf00t If the stream of water is indeed neutral, then shouldn't it be attracted by either positive or negatively charged objects? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Veritasium's video show that one charge repelled the water, while the other attracted it? If so, then how could the stream be neutral?

  • Jelle Bootsma
    Jelle Bootsma Год назад

    At least have the respect to pronounce his name correctly...

  • Auke Mebel
    Auke Mebel Год назад

    Why don't you go away from all the stuff to do with Ion's and try it with de_Ionized water and see if it works with that.

  • Guy Stokes
    Guy Stokes Год назад

    if you did kelvins experiment with a molten metal say, and let it cool before the spark gap quenches, should it not be creating a type of mono poled magnet if Kelvin is correct in what is going on? or am I wrong to think that would be the case?

  • Hiccup Zain
    Hiccup Zain Год назад

    when I watched Veritasoum video I honestly wanted him to perform the same experiment hut with distilled water (because it has less to no ions dissolved) But he didn't
    So plz can you do a distilled water test, it will be pretty strong evidence

  • Clorox Bleach
    Clorox Bleach Год назад

    That faucet is metal... Yours is some plastic, would that have anything to do with it?

  • Steven Baal
    Steven Baal Год назад

    Another version would be to use distilled water which should not deflect at all, due to no ions if V was right. This would have been easy with the apparatus used.

  • Higloo
    Higloo Год назад

    The video showed a cool experiment, why would we need to know how it would work or why it would work?With this principle we could make machines that could even be useful for us!

  • 猫我蜜糖
    猫我蜜糖 Год назад

    Vsauce and Veritasiums.. not that good most of the time. But they have a great image in a lot of people's eyes, just not mine.

  • casey obrien
    casey obrien Год назад

    The mic on your camera is better than the one you are using for most of the vid

  • TiagoTiago
    TiagoTiago Год назад

    How about testing the effects of high voltage DC fields on water to get a clearer effect?

  • Scott Williams
    Scott Williams Год назад

    No veritasium was right, if you used deionised water then there would be no deflection

  • seasong
    seasong Год назад

    So it works with destilled water?

  • Franco Buzzetti
    Franco Buzzetti Год назад

    can you expand on this like you didnt with coulomb explosions? thank you for science!

  • Maximillion Thermidor
    Maximillion Thermidor Год назад

    To be fair an engineering pleb like me would see no problem with this theory. Apply an electric feild and get an electric charge. From that feild we also get a perpendicular magnetic feild, which would attract the positively charged water. However given this doesn't hold up in reality I would be interested to see actual tests done. Perhaps use an inductor instead of a balloon to retry the experiment.
    However I prefer your methodology with the Kelvin dropper.

  • The Mad Hatter
    The Mad Hatter Год назад

    I think I know why the water droplets tend to move away when they fall. Imagine if you have a pendulum, if you push it one way and let it go, the pendulum doesn't immidiately stop in the center, it keeps moving till it gradually stops in the center. Likewise, the water is kind of acting like a pendulum in that it doesn't​ flow in the center when you move the balloon away.

  • Fazal Fariz
    Fazal Fariz Год назад

    So, does a magnet make the water stream bend?

  • DξLΤΔ χ
    DξLΤΔ χ Год назад

    So the more overal positive charged water molecules are pulled or favored first leaving more overall negatively charged water molecs for the end?

  • Eugene Arabadzhi
    Eugene Arabadzhi Год назад

    He just veritasiumed veritasium

  • Davide Riccardo Gabrielli
    Davide Riccardo Gabrielli Год назад

    Thunderf00t try that in vacuum

  • John Doe
    John Doe Год назад

    This system is such a great example of how you end up with non-linear effects when dealing with realistic systems, and how all the nice approximations physicists use break down.
    1.) Liquid water is a conductor, but it is not close to an 'ideal' or perfect conductor. As a result ions re-arrange themselves to maintain as low of a potential as they can possibly achieve. If there were an infinite amount of ions (or a very large number of positively and negatively charged ones), then the water would attempt to maintain a zero potential. Unlike a perfect conductor the ions in water are not smeared over the surface of the water, although they are still localized.
    2.) The water itself is a fluid, and is moving in response to gravity and the electromagnetic field itself. This is not at all what you deal with with ideal fixed conductors. This results in a two way non-linear coupling ; the electromagnetic field changes the shape of the waters surface and changes it's movement. The changes in the shape of the waters surface and it's movement result in changes in ionic concentrations, resulting in changes in the electromagnetic field. This makes it a difficult problem mathematically.
    3.) In addition, you have the fact that the surface charge on the balloon may rearrange itself in response to the electromagnetic field of the induced surface charge of the water. So there's that. That adds another layer of coupling here.

  • Brian Stevens
    Brian Stevens Год назад

    this has probablt been worked out by now but the water moving thru a tube may be gaining charge just like an aluminium skin on a truck moving through air unles this effect is counted up and negated experiment is inconclusive

  • jonas duell
    jonas duell Год назад

    If Veritasium was right, distilled water would not react to external charges...

  • oooBASTIooo
    oooBASTIooo Год назад

    Wouldn't the natural way to check this is to simply use distilled water and see whether it gets attracted or not?

  • Tom Davidson
    Tom Davidson Год назад

    For throughness the experiment should be repeated using (A) Conductivity Water, and (B) a non-ionic polar solvent such as ethanol.

  • Retro .Spekta
    Retro .Spekta Год назад

    What if you had 2 girls holding that 1 cup?

  • Solder Joe
    Solder Joe Год назад

    Revisit this now that you have the high speed camera. Might answer some questions. Isn't there a way of reading the charge on the outside of the tube as the water flows? Maybe a feather with a background gauge. Does the charge change on the drain when you introduce the balloon? That would tell you at least there is something different between drops and a stream and introducing the static charge.

  • Austito R
    Austito R Год назад

    slanderous and i love it

  • Alwin Priven
    Alwin Priven Год назад

    How about taking distilled water and testing if it's attracted to the balloon/cup?

  • DreadX10
    DreadX10 Год назад

    H2O, such a simple molecule, until you actually try to understand it's behaviour.

  • Ethan Labun
    Ethan Labun Год назад +1

    Wow thunder foot
    Have you ever tried getting views by other means besides criticism and spreading gloom
    I feel what you do is pathetic just going around dissing people who are more successful than you
    Try making the world a better place
    E.g build something amazing like idk a hyperloop oh wait your too dumb so instead you say hate about people who know what their doing

  • Sentient Potato
    Sentient Potato Год назад

    Thunderf00t, the most cynical scientist on RUclip. I love it.

  • rosselur
    rosselur Год назад

    what in the fuck gnome kind of shotglass holds 25 ml of liquid?

  • Alexander Sannikov
    Alexander Sannikov Год назад

    It is such a good feeling when you're first defying an effect that makes Kelvin water dropper work, my hands are just itching to write a comment about that and then you do actually talk about that as well and in the end you do prove that this effect can be shown when droplets form. My only complain is that in your veritassium video you said that ions move slowly in water: well, duh, electrons' directional movement in metals is pretty slow as well but because there's so many of them they still might form a considerable electrical current.

  • Dom Vasta
    Dom Vasta Год назад

    Did we ever figure this one out?

  • Tigrou7777
    Tigrou7777 Год назад

    You spin me right round, baby
    Right round like a record, baby
    Right round round round...

  • Jonnki
    Jonnki Год назад

    Veritatium?

  • gonnabeadoctorsoon2
    gonnabeadoctorsoon2 Год назад

    Needs less fake science or possibly someone with an actual science education. Issue #1: You are not using enough water to disprove this theory. #2: You are moving the balloons closer at the end of your "experiment". #3: Vertasium did not say ions, he says charge. You, in your very poor understanding of science, jumped to and made that conclusion. Again, please stop making bad science videos for your own ego. Your false information and poor scientific principle cause as much damage to science and people as anti vaxxers and flat earthers.

  • signalamplifier
    signalamplifier Год назад

    much more convincing would be an experiment with the double distilled water.

  • Remus
    Remus Год назад

    Next please do Vsauce.

  • Techo536
    Techo536 Год назад

    You're videos are well put together and make sense. Have you ever considered becoming less negative and, instead of only proving stuff doesn't work or is incorrect, coming up with solutions or alternative explanations? I read the description but this idea that just rebuffing an idea and being done with it is all pretty pseudoscience - very few studies just say something is incorrect and don't provide an alternative explanation. I think you should work on providing a more positive side to your channel - your negativity gets on my nerves because it's all your channel consists of!

  • Joseph A. Muniz
    Joseph A. Muniz Год назад

    Lol. Tnunderf00t can be an ass at times. However, that's one of the reasons I enjoy this channel. I love Veritasium channel too. If ever I had to choose which I'd rather have a beer with, I'd likely choose to have a drink and conversation with Veritasium... Only because Thunderf00t would likely sit trying to find rebuttals to everything I'd say. lol. I have a great level of respect for both channels.

  • coolascats
    coolascats Год назад

    I think there is an issue with relative reference frame here. 0.02. Both great channels.

  • Russia Did It
    Russia Did It Год назад

    i think im tto stupid for this

  • Jesse Gardner
    Jesse Gardner Год назад

    what the fuck?! it's this guy an idiot? thanks thunderf00t.

  • Tyson Romaniuk
    Tyson Romaniuk Год назад

    i thought it was charge sperations. same reason a balloon sticks to a wall